This is part 2 of a 2 part series: Part 1

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Audio:
You are listening to a podcast of the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation. CCEF is committed to restoring Christ to counseling and counseling to the church. You can find our podcasts, books, articles, videos and many more resources for Christ-centered pastoral care at our website, CCEF.org.

Alasdair Groves:
Hi. Welcome to CCEF On The Go. I am your host, Alasdair Groves, on faculty here at CCEF. And today I’m actually speaking again with Mike Emlet. Mike, we didn’t really know we were going to be doing this podcast today, but we got done our last podcast on addictions and realized there was so desperately much more we wanted to say that we couldn’t hold ourselves back. So thank you for jumping back in with me again today. Let me encourage those of you who haven’t had a chance to listen to the first half of this conversation to go back to our website or to wherever you get your podcasts and download part one of our conversation on addictions.

Alasdair Groves:
But we’re going to be picking back up with a focus on, how do we think about pastoral ministry, broadly defined, pastoral, to folks struggling with addictions? What are some strategies? Especially those of us who are counseling formally or informally with folks who struggle, what are the kinds of directions that are our conversations take in helping people to wrestle well in the face of addictions? So Mike, you want to launch in with a couple things that on your mind?

Mike Emlet:
Sure. Yeah. Thanks. I’m glad we could pick up the discussion. I think one of the themes that I find really important, or one of the directions to go fairly early on with folks is to get an understanding. Help them, in a sense, to better understand what their experience is in the moment. What they’re thinking, what they’re feeling, what they’re thinking, what their fears are. Because a lot of times, people who are struggling with addictions, particularly if they’re life dominating addictions, aren’t very self-aware in those moments.

Mike Emlet:
And perhaps they’re maybe more numbed out to experience in the now. Maybe they’re experiencing anxiety in the moment, but are not really cognizant of, why is that? And then they move to their substance of choice. So it’s been helpful, I think, to have people begin to slow down. In a sense, wake up to the reality of their experience in the moment, and then begin to connect that or begin to engage God in those moments.

Alasdair Groves:
Can I make sure I’m following you? In other words, your desire to connect them to what they’re experiencing right here and right now is, essentially, an effort to identify the nature of the temptation and often, I would assume the nature of the suffering, or stress, or discomfort that tends to drive one toward an addiction. So hey, right now, I’m actually feeling anxious would be a really helpful thing for an addict to be able to say, because that would help them identify, aha, this is going to be the kind of thing that drives me to run away from my life through this substance, or this activity, or whatever the case might be. Is that what you’re [inaudible 00:03:38]?

Mike Emlet:
Yes, absolutely. So in other words, it’s a layer deeper than just, I’m feeling stress, or distress, or anxiety. And therefore I’m moving into something that will alleviate that. I’m actually more aware of the particular triggers, the particular things that may be driving me in the moment. I’m worried about looking like a fool at this presentation that I have at the board meeting coming up. Has a person slowed down enough to really identify that? In other words, going a lot further than just, I need to avoid this behavior or stop this behavior, but getting beneath. And in a sense, knowing themselves in the moment.

Mike Emlet:
And then not that becomes an end point in and of itself. Self-awareness is not the end point in of itself. But that becomes a pivot point then to actually engage with the Lord and say, “I really am nervous about this presentation. And I’m tempted right now to go and kind of obliterate that anxiety with a couple drinks or more. Would you meet me in this now, Lord? I know your presence, and your comfort, and your peace.” So it becomes a potential pivot point then to engage with the Lord in the moment.

Alasdair Groves:
So waking up and naming the current state, the current anxiety, the current desire, the current here is the stress I’m feeling in order to bring it to the Lord. I bring things more effectively to the Lord in prayer and in crying out for help when I know what I’m crying out for help for, when I understand it is the presentation that is stressing me out right at this moment. That is a much more effective thing to engage than, oh, I need to be careful, because work is stressful and so therefore I have a job and how can I even avoid stress in my work?” Okay, that makes sense.

Mike Emlet:
And I think that there’s also another pivot point that happens there too, is then people who are struggling with addictions, also become more aware of others around them. So their self-awareness leads, hopefully, to them engaging with the Lord. But then they also are more able and willing to engage with the people around them, actually being able to articulate, “This is what my experience was earlier today,” to a friend or a roommate or spouse. Because oftentimes, people will become closed off, particularly again, in more life-dominating addictions. Their world closes in. Their relationships close in. And they don’t have, in one sense, a reference point outside themselves.

Alasdair Groves:
Right. And I feel like you’re highlighting something we touched on significantly in our last conversation, which is just the power of the church to help. And how much it is a benefit to everyone, but especially to the person struggling, to be able to say, “Here is how you can pray for me. Not just in behaviors, but in my heart. Here’s the thing that is weighing on me,” not just, “Pray that I don’t mess up again today, but I’m weighted down by this.” Yes.

Mike Emlet:
Yeah, absolutely. So I think that maybe that’s one of the first things that comes to mind as I think about walking alongside those who are struggling with addictions, helping them wake, up in a sense, know themselves and then orient themselves toward the Lord. But I think a second place is helping people grow in tasting and seeing that the Lord is good, Psalm 34:8. Helping them, in a sense, if waking up is more about knowing yourself, tasting and seeing that the Lord is good, is growing in your relationship with God. Growing in seeing God is good. And tasting, when we think about taste, it’s not mono dimensional. We taste salty, sweet, savory, bitter, sour. I think I got them all.

Alasdair Groves:
Is salsa one of the flavors?

Mike Emlet:
Well, salsa incorporates a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, salsa is a sixth. So sometimes our experience of God, particularly in the midst of addictions, can be very mono dimensional, bland. So what can it look like for someone? Again, this is true for all of us. All of us need to grow in tasting and seeing that the Lord is good. I mean, I think this psalm is really talking about the affections there. What do I love? Where do I run? What makes my heart skip a beat? Is it the Lord or is it something else? So I think that’s a place, I think, is important to take people as well.

Alasdair Groves:
It’s interesting. I remember hearing you talking about that some time ago in some teaching you were doing on addictions and just being struck by the simplicity of that idea, just tasting and seeing that the Lord is good. It’s not like, oh, if you have some good dessert, that’s going to be better than your desire for alcohol or heroin. But there is something about receiving that which you can taste, and see, and touch, and smell. Even just the sunlight on your skin and the warmth of that, there’s something about receiving it as a personal gift and having it be evidence to your very senses that the Lord is good, that has a powerful reorienting effect on your cognition and on your emotion. And that is a direct counterbalance to the idea that I must go feel better this way. I must go have this great experience, that is where my life is.

Alasdair Groves:
And I think in a related way, I’ve often found myself in the face of addictions talking about the end of Colossians 2, beginning of Colossians 3, where at the end of Colossians 2, Paul is saying, “You’ve got this teaching out there, this worldly wisdom. It does have an appearance of wisdom. It’s do not handle, do not taste, do not touch, stay away.” Avoid these sort of “corrupting” situations,” or temptations, or substances, or whatever. And he said, “This kind of teaching has the appearance of wisdom with its harsh treatment of the body, but has no value in restraining sensual indulgence.” To simply sort of withdraw from the world and from its sensory experiences is not the answer to temptation. And he goes instead in the first bit of Colossians 3 and says, “Christ is your life. When Christ, who is your life, appears, you’ll be with him in glory. Set your mind on what things are above.”

Alasdair Groves:
And that phrase, “Christ is your life,” as I’m hearing you say that, I think that phrase has been filling a similar role to taste and see that the Lord is good. Just think about, well, what is your life? How would you answer the question? What is your life? What’s the core of your life? And for anyone who’s struggling significantly with a pattern of behavior, or substances, or whatever, if they’re honest, they’re going to answer, “It’s my pornography. It’s my alcohol. It’s the escape. It’s the connection I feel on Facebook. It’s whatever. It’s that thing that draws me in.” When you think about, what is my life? Well, that’s the thing I think about. That’s the thing I run toward, all the things you [inaudible 00:11:32] saying. And where do I spend my time? Where do my thoughts run when I have a moment? That sort of thing. What do I daydream about? What am I orienting my schedule around, getting back to?

Alasdair Groves:
And just the idea that we want that to be Christ. And not in some sort of weird, hyper religious, I only ever read my Bible all day Saturday kind of thing, but just all of life would be oriented around Christ is my life. And I feel like your saying, “Taste and see that the Lord is good,” is such a richly practical, tangible way to do that, looking for that. How can I taste that Christ is good, right now, in the next 10 minutes? The answer will be something. There will be something you can do in the next 10 minutes that will have something to bring home to your body and soul, that God is good. Most of us don’t look for that most of the time.

Mike Emlet:
And I think, I mean, you’re highlighting a number of things that come to mind for me. I’m thinking of Thomas Chalmers, the Scottish minister in the mid 1800s talking about the explosive power of a new affection, that we don’t, in a sense, grow so much by highlighting the badness of the things that ensnare us, but highlighting the goodness, and the glory, and the beauty of the Lord and being drawn to him in a positive way. And that comes as we linger in scripture and as we ask God to reveal himself as good, and gracious, and loving. It comes as we experience, as you’ve said a few minutes ago, a good meal. And we connect that pleasure with a God, who does care about us and giving us those simple pleasures.

Mike Emlet:
I think it’s sort of like needing to fight fire with fire, so to speak, with addictions. It has to be more than just, this is a cognitive battle. I bring these propositional truths to bear, where they actually have hands, and feet, and real flesh-and-blood kinds of moments where I’m again, connecting those to the Lord. That, I think, is all involved in taste and see that the Lord is good.

Alasdair Groves:
Keep going. You said you had another category.

Mike Emlet:
So, fighting well. In a sense, fighting well is another, just a practical day-to-day, what does that fight against addictions look like? And I think probably several things come to mind there. One is not living in darkness, but walking in the light, in the sense of being front with people about how you’re struggling, being honest. I mean, the struggle with addictions is a struggle with both self deceit and deceiving others. So a really important aspect of growth is honesty and transparency with others. I heard a minister say once that sometimes we put just enough on the table that we keep people from looking underneath the table. And so can we be more honest? And if I’m a person who’s walking alongside someone struggling with addictions, am I willing to ask the hard questions and pursue that brother or sister with a loving, probing kind of question? So that’d be one thing.

Mike Emlet:
I think failing well is another aspect. The struggle, particularly if it’s been a life dominating kind of addiction, the general pattern is, it’s going to take time. And there’ll be relapses. There’ll be failures. But what happens when the person fails? Does that become an occasion for them to dive back in full force into their addiction? Or does it, hopefully, become an opportunity to say, “Well, yep, I did slip here. I did sin in this way. But I want to turn back now.” So failure is an opportunity to turn rather than to go back and, in a sense, wallow in and go deeper into the addiction, would be, I think, another theme or another thing that I would want to highlight with someone.

Alasdair Groves:
I really appreciate that, Mike, because there’s such a fine line to walk, in one sense. It’s a line that can only be walked with the right heart. And if you’re walking with the right heart, you are going to walk it well. And if you’re not, it doesn’t matter how close you get to the line, you’re going to slip on one side or the other. And the one side of the line is this sort of self-defeating, self beating up, I’m completely worthless and I need to heap guilt and shame upon myself in such a way that tends to lead either towards despair and isolation. And that’s not what anyone actually is even hoping for you. And usually, that does tend to then snowball back into just, “Well, if I’m defeated, what’s the difference? I might as well just plunge back in full force.”

Alasdair Groves:
But on the flip side, there can also be a minimizing. It’s like, well, yes, I slipped or I fell. I remember one time someone once said something like, “I fell back into sin this week.” And then sort of pausing and being like, “No, I actually ran, jumped, climbed over the fence and beat up the guards to get my way into sin this week.” There’s such an activeness to most addictive behaviors, especially any that have been, as you said, life dominating.

Alasdair Groves:
And there’s a way in which if you are the friend or the spouse of the person who’s like, “Well, I slipped, but the Lord is good,” there can be a sense of minimizing that you hear. And so with the right heart to say, “I gave into temptation and all this within me cries out against it, including the fact that I actually, maybe don’t even feel as guilty as I know I should. And I’m grieved by that. And I want to change and to grow here. And I’ve made apologies before. And I’m not asking anyone to believe my words. But I am asking for people to help me walk in a different way. And this inspires me to further transparency, and honesty, and willingly embracing restrictions on my life. I want to cut off my hand to keep myself from this pattern.”

Alasdair Groves:
And that’s an easy line to articulate. It’s such a hard line to actually walk out, week in and week out. But I hear you emphasizing if your standard is once clean, always clean, no relapse is possible. And if there is any relapse, then it defeats all the value of having done anything. If it’s complete reset to zero, if I ever struggle or fall in the slightest way, there’s no hope for any of us. We all fall into sin on a regular basis, which doesn’t minimize the fact that some sins have much more grievous impact than others. And you can’t just whitewash everything. Well, I was a little bit lazy again yesterday versus I did heroin. It has a different impact.

Mike Emlet:
Absolutely. I think that’s true. I think maybe even one other thing in relation to what we were just talking about is really guarding yourself against, if you will, micro steps towards your addiction. I mean, it’s related, I think, to self deceit, kind of like, “Well, this gets through my conscience. It just kind of passes through. So maybe I’m not looking at pornography, but I’m kind of looking at these swimsuits, lingering longer that I should in this particular catalog. Well, that’s on the road. And can I be honest about that? And can I realize that that’s actually not going to move me in a positive direction? That’s not moving me towards tasting and seeing that the world is good.”

Alasdair Groves:
And to be able to speak that to your brothers, your sisters, and just say, “Man, I am really, I’m seeing the science. I haven’t gone and looked at stuff online, which I’m glad to say, but I am aware of even just how my heart is responding to the commercial I saw last night in the middle of the game, or something that just acknowledges I feel the momentum building in a bad direction. Even if nothing that overtly terrible has yet occurred, I feel that my heart is being tugged here.” And I love that word, micro steps in the wrong direction.

Alasdair Groves:
And on the flip side, celebrating even micro steps on the right direction. “There was growth in me this week. I turned away from something that I wouldn’t have turned away from last week. And it didn’t mean that my heart was in a great space for a lot of the week, but I saw this greater desire to fight. I saw this greater turning. This thing has less appeal to me. Even micro changes at the level of my desires are the work of the spirit to be rejoiced in.”

Mike Emlet:
Absolutely. And so that you’re not just focusing on, if you will, just the behavior. As critical as that is, and as destructive as that can be to the person and to those around them, I’m also looking for changes at the level of attitude and heart. And that’s, I think, really critical.

Alasdair Groves:
Well, there’s a thousand more hours we could say about the devastation wreaked by these things. And we don’t mean to, in 20 minutes, say we have tried to cover the fact that lives are destroyed on these things. And yet I think it’s utterly vital to recognize the worst destruction ever wreaked by the most horrific, addictive patterns and the things that come with that and support that, they begin as these little, tiny, imperceptible shifts of the heart and direction. And the path towards life, and hope, and health, and healing, and community, and fellowship are going to be battles that are going to have to be fought at these micro moments. Nobody is exempted from that, even when there are wonderful, sweet moments of sudden turning and change. So Mike, would you just pray for us as a church universal as we combat this?

Mike Emlet:
Sure. Lord, we are all people who struggle to say no to desires that are antithetical to your desires and designs for our lives. We pray for ourselves. We pray for our brothers and sisters in whom those desires have become so unruly and life dominating, that they have brought devastation on their own lives and those that they love, that you would give us wisdom, and love, and compassion to move toward them. And would you, Lord Jesus, be pleased to bring redemption far as the curse is found? And we thank you, that we have hope that you do just that in the hardest of places. And we thank you in the name of Christ. Amen.

Alasdair Groves:
Amen.

Alasdair Groves:
Obviously, there’s a lot more to say about counseling people who are struggling with addictions. We thought one resource that might be especially helpful would be a talk given at our National Conference on Addictions by Winston Smith called, Counseling Strategies for Individuals with Addictions. I imagine you can see how that might be relevant to our conversation from today. That will be right below the link on our website for today’s podcast. Our website is CCEF.org/podcast.